Bought an old Percival Sea Prince (twin engine with approximately
2,000 pounds useful with full fuel.

This might turn into an academic exercise only, but would really like
to save on car rental, hotel and restaurant costs when traveling. I've
already figured out the transportation portion with a scooter and side
car, but need thoughts on cabin heating, stove, fridge, shower, sink,
toilet, etc.

Anyone out there seen a converted beech 18, maybe a Grumman Widgeon,
or something similar in size?

Thanks
Bill

William M wrote:

> Bought an old Percival Sea Prince (twin engine with approximately
> 2,000 pounds useful with full fuel.

http://www.oldprops.f9.co.uk/Percival%20Prince%20Photographs.htm

> This might turn into an academic exercise only, but would really like
> to save on car rental, hotel and restaurant costs when traveling. I've
> already figured out the transportation portion with a scooter and side
> car, but need thoughts on cabin heating, stove, fridge, shower, sink,
> toilet, etc.

A "Homelite" portable generator for 120/220 power. A/C electric heating
would be the safest. Maybe even permanently mounted in the tail (or
nose) like an APU on the big birds or run outside and away from the
plane for noise reduction, simplicity and safety.

A slide out cooking surface, like what is used for tailgating, would be
the safest. A tarp/canopy could provide additional shade or protection
from the weather, though you do have a large wing for that too. There
are several multipower refrigerators available. It could have power from
the main or a "house" battery, as well as from the generator or even
propane. The stove could be electric, propane or fueled by gas sumped
from the engines. What is the buss voltage of the aircraft? You'll
probably need a regulator to give a more standard 12v source for
appliances or to power an inverter (inflight microwave).

A bath module from a travel camper would be the most convenient, as it
provides the toilet, sink and shower in one unit. If the water tank were
overhead, gravity could provide pressure and if its over the holding
tank, that would capture the waste water. Grey water could be discharged
externally if permitted. A portapotty would be the easiest to install.

William M wrote:

> Bought an old Percival Sea Prince (twin engine with approximately
> 2,000 pounds useful with full fuel.
>
> This might turn into an academic exercise only, but would really like
> to save on car rental, hotel and restaurant costs when traveling. I've
> already figured out the transportation portion with a scooter and side
> car, but need thoughts on cabin heating, stove, fridge, shower, sink,
> toilet, etc.
>
> Anyone out there seen a converted beech 18, maybe a Grumman Widgeon,
> or something similar in size?
>

Jimmy Buffet's Grunman Albatross comes to mind:
http://www.margaritaville.com/adventures/dancer3.htm

From googling on it, it appears that it is no longer flying.

Bill,

Have you really decided what amenities you want or need built in?

I have seen plenty of air show folks who just spend the occasional night
camping out near or in their plane. Not changing the plane much at all,
except to add sleeping space and heat would seem to be an option. Then, a
portable generator and a few gadgets would work. This assumes you can use
the airport or marina plumbing.

Even if this is an intellectual exercise, I am all for it. I don't foresee
ever having the ability to buy and maintain one of the really big sea
planes, so I want to know what the possibilities are as well. I would likely
want to know what tricks I could use to upgrade something like a caravan, or
one of the cabin class pistons.

I am hoping the value of the single engine turbo props comes way down with
the new jets. I foresee a retired user being able to accept the trade offs
involved in one of these planes when the businesses are able to upgrade to a
2 million dollar class jet and save money.





"William M" > wrote in message
om...
> Bought an old Percival Sea Prince (twin engine with approximately
> 2,000 pounds useful with full fuel.
>
> This might turn into an academic exercise only, but would really like
> to save on car rental, hotel and restaurant costs when traveling. I've
> already figured out the transportation portion with a scooter and side
> car, but need thoughts on cabin heating, stove, fridge, shower, sink,
> toilet, etc.
>
> Anyone out there seen a converted beech 18, maybe a Grumman Widgeon,
> or something similar in size?
>
> Thanks
> Bill

In article >,
Darrel Toepfer > wrote:
>William M wrote:
>
>> Bought an old Percival Sea Prince (twin engine with approximately
>> 2,000 pounds useful with full fuel.
>
>http://www.oldprops.f9.co.uk/Percival%20Prince%20Photographs.htm

Like if a Dash 8 had puppies!

--
Ben Jackson
>
http://www.ben.com/

Does climb any on one engine??
________________
G. Paleologopoulos


"Ben Jackson" > wrote in message
news:gKBad.370660$Fg5.367665@attbi_s53...
> In article >,
> Darrel Toepfer > wrote:
>>William M wrote:
>>
>>> Bought an old Percival Sea Prince (twin engine with approximately
>>> 2,000 pounds useful with full fuel.
>>
>>http://www.oldprops.f9.co.uk/Percival%20Prince%20Photographs.htm
>
> Like if a Dash 8 had puppies!
>
> --
> Ben Jackson
> >
> http://www.ben.com/

"Ben Jackson" > wrote in message
news:gKBad.370660$Fg5.367665@attbi_s53...
> In article >,
> Darrel Toepfer > wrote:
> >William M wrote:
> >
> >> Bought an old Percival Sea Prince (twin engine with approximately
> >> 2,000 pounds useful with full fuel.
> >
> >http://www.oldprops.f9.co.uk/Percival%20Prince%20Photographs.htm
>
> Like if a Dash 8 had puppies!

There are a couple of Sea Princes you can play with here:
http://www.gatwick-aviation-museum.co.uk/prince/prince.html
It has some information on them. Cool personal aircraft!

Paul

Paul Sengupta wrote:
>
> There are a couple of Sea Princes you can play with here:
> http://www.gatwick-aviation-museum.co.uk/prince/prince.html
> It has some information on them. Cool personal aircraft!

Sorta resembles the old Lockheed Hudson. Wonder if that served as inspiration.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.

Thanks for the responses,

By the way in real life it looks like what a twin Otter would have
looked like if it where designed the same day as the single engine
version.

For it to be worthwhile I want to replace some restaurant meals plus
all hotel and auto rental costs while on the road. That means a full
kitchen and washroom facilities, tables and adjustable seating, TV and
comfortable sleeping facilities for two.

Assuming at any airport:-
- Clean water is available.
- We could drain the grey water.
- Black water removal may not be available.
- Electricity may not be available.
- Winter operations.

So far I've found:-
- vacuum toilet that uses about half a quart per flush.
- very low volume shower heads.
- motor scooter and sidecar around 400 lbs.

Starting to play with:-
- how not to die of carbon monoxide poisoning, explosions or fire
- how to keep the pipes from freezing when we are not around
- how to empty the black water
- how to go as light in weight as possible
- how to get a quiet electrical generator that runs on avgas

Then after all is said and done. How do I get all this approved? I
mean by the authorities ~ my wife is another story.

Bill

William M wrote:

> For it to be worthwhile I want to replace some restaurant meals plus
> all hotel and auto rental costs while on the road. That means a full
> kitchen and washroom facilities, tables and adjustable seating, TV and
> comfortable sleeping facilities for two.

> - how not to die of carbon monoxide poisoning, explosions or fire

Cook outside, however if you solve the power problem, cook with
electricity... Otherwise use propane:
http://www.boatus-store.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=20002&storeId=20002&categoryId=473&langId=-1&subdeptNum=470&storeNum=15

> - how to keep the pipes from freezing when we are not around

RV antifreeze, Wal*Mart sells it. Otherwise drain everything...

> - how to empty the black water

Use a portapottie, unsnap the seat and take the tank to the local FBO
toilet.
http://www.boatus-store.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=20002&langId=-1&catalogId=20002&classNum=715&subdeptNum=209&storeNum=11&productId=46539

> - how to go as light in weight as possible

See the above... Use thin aluminum structures... <G>

> - how to get a quiet electrical generator that runs on avgas

I think most would be able to, quiet is the tuff part. Lots of batteries
might be the easiest (house, seperate from the mains), with large output
alternators on your engines to restore them. Or perhaps a GPU (gas
driven DC generator) for topping off the batteries before takeoff. An
inverter can power any 120vac devices for periods of time in the air or
on the ground...

> Then after all is said and done. How do I get all this approved? I
> mean by the authorities ~ my wife is another story.

Airframe mods could be a booger, unless you'd move the plane into
experimental and then insurance could be a real issue. How does one
insure a warbird (exmilitary plane)? From the interior photos I saw, you
could perhaps mod a portion of that desk along the right side for
kitchen duties. Otherwise you'll be removing alot of stuff that might
allow adding more stuff... <G>

I would try to make everything non airframe as much as possible. IOW, don't
rivet in the stove and wire it to the system. Strap it in "temporarily" and
plug it in to the electrical.


"Darrel Toepfer" > wrote in message
...
> William M wrote:
>
>> For it to be worthwhile I want to replace some restaurant meals plus
>> all hotel and auto rental costs while on the road. That means a full
>> kitchen and washroom facilities, tables and adjustable seating, TV and
>> comfortable sleeping facilities for two.
>
> > - how not to die of carbon monoxide poisoning, explosions or fire
>
> Cook outside, however if you solve the power problem, cook with
> electricity... Otherwise use propane:
> http://www.boatus-store.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=20002&storeId=20002&categoryId=473&langId=-1&subdeptNum=470&storeNum=15
>
>> - how to keep the pipes from freezing when we are not around
>
> RV antifreeze, Wal*Mart sells it. Otherwise drain everything...
>
>> - how to empty the black water
>
> Use a portapottie, unsnap the seat and take the tank to the local FBO
> toilet.
> http://www.boatus-store.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=20002&langId=-1&catalogId=20002&classNum=715&subdeptNum=209&storeNum=11&productId=46539
>
>> - how to go as light in weight as possible
>
> See the above... Use thin aluminum structures... <G>
>
>> - how to get a quiet electrical generator that runs on avgas
>
> I think most would be able to, quiet is the tuff part. Lots of batteries
> might be the easiest (house, seperate from the mains), with large output
> alternators on your engines to restore them. Or perhaps a GPU (gas driven
> DC generator) for topping off the batteries before takeoff. An inverter
> can power any 120vac devices for periods of time in the air or on the
> ground...
>
>> Then after all is said and done. How do I get all this approved? I
>> mean by the authorities ~ my wife is another story.
>
> Airframe mods could be a booger, unless you'd move the plane into
> experimental and then insurance could be a real issue. How does one insure
> a warbird (exmilitary plane)? From the interior photos I saw, you could
> perhaps mod a portion of that desk along the right side for kitchen
> duties. Otherwise you'll be removing alot of stuff that might allow adding
> more stuff... <G>

> - Black water removal may not be available.
Think about a flying boat. Taxi up to the boat dump stations and you are
all set.

Carl J. Hixon wrote:

>>- Black water removal may not be available.
>
> Think about a flying boat. Taxi up to the boat dump stations and you are
> all set.

But his plane doesn't float, well maybe it would for alittle while...

Actually I contacted a fellow who advertised a seaplane conversion on
Ebay for high wing twin engine aircraft. He then mailed me some
information. It was basically adding a hull to the bottom of the
fuselage and attaching a couple of sponsons on the wings.

I have pictures and a set plans of a Cessna 150 conversion so it's
possible… just not probable or practical I think.

Now to find a pair of 12,000 amphib floats kicking around for less
than the price of a house. That would be neat.

Bill

William M wrote:

> Actually I contacted a fellow who advertised a seaplane conversion on
> Ebay for high wing twin engine aircraft. He then mailed me some
> information. It was basically adding a hull to the bottom of the
> fuselage and attaching a couple of sponsons on the wings.
>
> I have pictures and a set plans of a Cessna 150 conversion so it's
> possible… just not probable or practical I think.

Not a biggie, though they up the HP to 150, ie. 50% more than it had
before, but no gross weight increase like floats sometimes allow. The
added engine weight offsets the loss of the nosewheel and I believe they
move the battery to the aft end of the plane...

> Now to find a pair of 12,000 amphib floats kicking around for less
> than the price of a house. That would be neat.

Well there are/have been DC3's on floats, that would give you a couple
thousand pounds safety factor... <G>

> But his plane doesn't float, well maybe it would for alittle while...

Technicalities, technicalities, technicalities. I suppose you preflight
your plane before taking off too. ;-) Okay I missed that detail. Having
reviewed it, that is a very nice aircraft!